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	<title>Comments on: Rozen Maiden Deconstructed</title>
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		<title>By: Random</title>
		<link>http://azureflame.dasaku.net/2007/01/04/rozen-maiden-deconstructed/comment-page-1/#comment-631</link>
		<dc:creator>Random</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 06:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azureflame.ikimashou.net/?p=656#comment-631</guid>
		<description>Most of the &quot;plot-holes&quot; you have stated would only be valid if the manga or anime has truly ended, which they haven&#039;t.  So at most they can only be called unsolved mysteries.

Rozen still being alive isn&#039;t that hard to imagine, this series does have a magical basis, not like living dolls are very realistic in the first place.

Suigin Tou being a mistake by Rozen is only your conjecture.  She is *incomplete*, for reasons unknown to us.

Suigin Tou being repaired is not a fanboi fix, as it was intended from the start when Shinku refused to take her Rosa Mystica, I can&#039;t imagine Rozen leaving something like that lying around.

As for the &quot;For those unwilling to do the maths, this is approximately 67 years, and is a line borrowed from Shinku and Suigintou’s first reunion in the manga. Placing it in Traumend is a pointless blunder, however, as it means that it has been 67 years since the first season.&quot;  You have completely missed the point, for she is referring to their first battle 67 years ago.  She did not initially remember her recent battle with Shinku because of her repairs.

Enju making a living doll isn&#039;t all that &quot;amazing&quot; or &quot;plot-breaking&quot; either.  Suigin Tou herself managed to achieve animation without a Rosa Mystica.  This within itself is enough proof that the Rosa Mystic, whilst special, is not a requirement for a living doll.
Enju&#039;s long life is also not really anything big, purely because it&#039;s something that is well within the realms of the world this series is based in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the &#8220;plot-holes&#8221; you have stated would only be valid if the manga or anime has truly ended, which they haven&#8217;t.  So at most they can only be called unsolved mysteries.</p>
<p>Rozen still being alive isn&#8217;t that hard to imagine, this series does have a magical basis, not like living dolls are very realistic in the first place.</p>
<p>Suigin Tou being a mistake by Rozen is only your conjecture.  She is *incomplete*, for reasons unknown to us.</p>
<p>Suigin Tou being repaired is not a fanboi fix, as it was intended from the start when Shinku refused to take her Rosa Mystica, I can&#8217;t imagine Rozen leaving something like that lying around.</p>
<p>As for the &#8220;For those unwilling to do the maths, this is approximately 67 years, and is a line borrowed from Shinku and Suigintou’s first reunion in the manga. Placing it in Traumend is a pointless blunder, however, as it means that it has been 67 years since the first season.&#8221;  You have completely missed the point, for she is referring to their first battle 67 years ago.  She did not initially remember her recent battle with Shinku because of her repairs.</p>
<p>Enju making a living doll isn&#8217;t all that &#8220;amazing&#8221; or &#8220;plot-breaking&#8221; either.  Suigin Tou herself managed to achieve animation without a Rosa Mystica.  This within itself is enough proof that the Rosa Mystic, whilst special, is not a requirement for a living doll.<br />
Enju&#8217;s long life is also not really anything big, purely because it&#8217;s something that is well within the realms of the world this series is based in.</p>
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		<title>By: Tanasinn</title>
		<link>http://azureflame.dasaku.net/2007/01/04/rozen-maiden-deconstructed/comment-page-1/#comment-636</link>
		<dc:creator>Tanasinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2007 02:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azureflame.ikimashou.net/?p=656#comment-636</guid>
		<description>Just as a forward note, I&#039;m going by the animoot. The Manga is so different that it literally is a different story entirely, the characters act almost completely different.

Also, some backstory on Rozen to help explain some things. Rozen is based on the Count of St. Germain(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comte_de_Saint-Germain), who is said to have perfected the Philosopher&#039;s stone, and have made a homonculus with it that had intellect and reason, as well as the ability to move(Hence the whole &quot;rosa mystica&quot; thing, also explaining the long life, as the Philosopher&#039;s stone was said to be able to make an elixir to make humans younger), as well as claiming to be hundreds of years old.

1.) Well, I&#039;ve answered the age question, and I&#039;ve never seen or heard anything about them being seperate parts of a whole one.
2.) Rozen never said Junk was a failure, Shinku did. If everything is for the sake of creating Alice, then pain/loneliness/etc. IS crucial to being human, explaining everything else.
4.) Well, Bara may have her own one. Enju may just have made a new one for Suigintou, not had her originally intended one. They just seem to be memory/power storers, like batteries. Maybe putting more than one in at once causes explosions/malfunctions, as seen with Bara.
6.) There probably will be one~
7.) I&#039;m pretty sure that&#039;s what Laplace said, so.
8.) Yes, but considering Rozen is obviously hundreds of years old, 150 years or so is pretty recent.
9.) It&#039;d make sense, people go to absurd lengths for ego. I consider the manga to be a completely seperate story, as there&#039;s completely different character personalities/events.
10.) Suigintou managed to send feathers out of the N-field while in it, don&#039;t see why Kirakishou can&#039;t just send vines through it and aet Hina&#039;s body.
tl;dr</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just as a forward note, I&#8217;m going by the animoot. The Manga is so different that it literally is a different story entirely, the characters act almost completely different.</p>
<p>Also, some backstory on Rozen to help explain some things. Rozen is based on the Count of St. Germain(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comte_de_Saint-Germain), who is said to have perfected the Philosopher&#8217;s stone, and have made a homonculus with it that had intellect and reason, as well as the ability to move(Hence the whole &#8220;rosa mystica&#8221; thing, also explaining the long life, as the Philosopher&#8217;s stone was said to be able to make an elixir to make humans younger), as well as claiming to be hundreds of years old.</p>
<p>1.) Well, I&#8217;ve answered the age question, and I&#8217;ve never seen or heard anything about them being seperate parts of a whole one.<br />
2.) Rozen never said Junk was a failure, Shinku did. If everything is for the sake of creating Alice, then pain/loneliness/etc. IS crucial to being human, explaining everything else.<br />
4.) Well, Bara may have her own one. Enju may just have made a new one for Suigintou, not had her originally intended one. They just seem to be memory/power storers, like batteries. Maybe putting more than one in at once causes explosions/malfunctions, as seen with Bara.<br />
6.) There probably will be one~<br />
7.) I&#8217;m pretty sure that&#8217;s what Laplace said, so.<br />
8.) Yes, but considering Rozen is obviously hundreds of years old, 150 years or so is pretty recent.<br />
9.) It&#8217;d make sense, people go to absurd lengths for ego. I consider the manga to be a completely seperate story, as there&#8217;s completely different character personalities/events.<br />
10.) Suigintou managed to send feathers out of the N-field while in it, don&#8217;t see why Kirakishou can&#8217;t just send vines through it and aet Hina&#8217;s body.<br />
tl;dr</p>
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		<title>By: Karura</title>
		<link>http://azureflame.dasaku.net/2007/01/04/rozen-maiden-deconstructed/comment-page-1/#comment-635</link>
		<dc:creator>Karura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 22:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azureflame.ikimashou.net/?p=656#comment-635</guid>
		<description>1) Hmm, I read that they were divided parts of a single Rosa Mystica. As for &#039;you don&#039;t question&#039;, well, I am questioning it. If you&#039;re content not to question, you may as well ignore this article.
2) But why call her a failure, leave to her to flounder around and only then give her the Rosa Mystica? Surely completing her from memory or building a new doll from scratch would have been better than randomly changing one&#039;s mind about an unfinished work.
3) Fair enough.
4) If he had the Rosa Mystica, why fix her instead of just taking it to give straight to his creation Bara? In point of fact, why has neither Enju or Rozen tried putting multiple Rosa Mysticae into one doll in the first place instead of going through this convoluted method?
5) Okay, so according to the timestamp I did make a mistake with the screencap.
6) Forgive me, but when I see rabbit men, I expect an explanation eventually.
7) &#039;Actually begin in earnest&#039;? How convenient.
8) Wasn&#039;t that Enju in Overture? Magic is truly a great way to explain many things. Funny you should mention the Philosopher&#039;s Stone, though, as I will soon be writing an FMA/RM crossover for Tuesday Rumble.
9) So everything is set up in a big fight just to prove Enju&#039;s ego and Rozen wanted the dolls to decide who got to be Alice by playing cards... Even if Traumend does digress, the Alice Game originates from the manga, and Enju isn&#039;t even around in that.
10) Well, first she has to get out of the N-field and to the body...

As I said somewhere above, yes I hope in time everything will be explained and clarified to my satisfaction, but for now I&#039;m afraid I&#039;m of the mind that the anime writers and possibly even Peach Pit themselves will be pulling answers out of their backsides because they haven&#039;t thought far enough ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Hmm, I read that they were divided parts of a single Rosa Mystica. As for &#8216;you don&#8217;t question&#8217;, well, I am questioning it. If you&#8217;re content not to question, you may as well ignore this article.<br />
2) But why call her a failure, leave to her to flounder around and only then give her the Rosa Mystica? Surely completing her from memory or building a new doll from scratch would have been better than randomly changing one&#8217;s mind about an unfinished work.<br />
3) Fair enough.<br />
4) If he had the Rosa Mystica, why fix her instead of just taking it to give straight to his creation Bara? In point of fact, why has neither Enju or Rozen tried putting multiple Rosa Mysticae into one doll in the first place instead of going through this convoluted method?<br />
5) Okay, so according to the timestamp I did make a mistake with the screencap.<br />
6) Forgive me, but when I see rabbit men, I expect an explanation eventually.<br />
7) &#8216;Actually begin in earnest&#8217;? How convenient.<br />
8) Wasn&#8217;t that Enju in Overture? Magic is truly a great way to explain many things. Funny you should mention the Philosopher&#8217;s Stone, though, as I will soon be writing an FMA/RM crossover for Tuesday Rumble.<br />
9) So everything is set up in a big fight just to prove Enju&#8217;s ego and Rozen wanted the dolls to decide who got to be Alice by playing cards&#8230; Even if Traumend does digress, the Alice Game originates from the manga, and Enju isn&#8217;t even around in that.<br />
10) Well, first she has to get out of the N-field and to the body&#8230;</p>
<p>As I said somewhere above, yes I hope in time everything will be explained and clarified to my satisfaction, but for now I&#8217;m afraid I&#8217;m of the mind that the anime writers and possibly even Peach Pit themselves will be pulling answers out of their backsides because they haven&#8217;t thought far enough ahead.</p>
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		<title>By: Tanasinn</title>
		<link>http://azureflame.dasaku.net/2007/01/04/rozen-maiden-deconstructed/comment-page-1/#comment-632</link>
		<dc:creator>Tanasinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azureflame.ikimashou.net/?p=656#comment-632</guid>
		<description>Now to get rid of all your &#039;holes&#039;.

1.) The Rosa Mystica are not all just parts of one thing, they&#039;re all seperate. We also have no proof that Rozen himself wants them to fight, the only ones who talk about the game are Enju and crew. Why is he still alive? It&#039;s an animoot/manga. People can live forever if they&#039;re magic, it&#039;s one of those things you just don&#039;t question.

2.) As said several times in the series, Rozen lost Suigintou&#039;s plans and thus didn&#039;t finish her. He gave her a Roza Mystica eventually since he of course DID start making her, so why not?

3.) I think the &#039;started working on her while in the N-field&#039; is the best explanation.

4.) I&#039;m personally assuming Enju fixed her, as they say only &#039;father&#039; can repair people, but Enju WAS his apprentice. Enju could very well have had the ability to make Rosa Mystica, and maybe he had Suigintou&#039;s all along.

5.) That screencap is from episode 2 or 3 of the first season. The second time she says that is in the episode she comes back, where she obviously has amnesia.

6.) ...That&#039;s not in any way a plot-hole, it&#039;s just something unexplained. There&#039;s also no proof that Laplace is working with/for Rozen, just Enju.

7.) The Alice Game is always on, from what I understand. Laplace just said that since they all thought every doll was &#039;awake&#039;, so it was perfect timing to actually begin in earnest. As for Hina, she only loses her ability to gain power from Shinku after Souseiseki loses her rosa mystica, the first true &#039;loss&#039; in the game.

8.) Maybe Enju is a recent apprentice of Rozen, or, since the Rosa Mystica seems to be a sort of Philospher&#039;s stone, they&#039;re just usin&#039; their magicz to keep alive. There is no reason to assume he can&#039;t make Rosa Mystica.

9.) Since Laplace and Enju are the only ones constantly talking about the Alice Game, it&#039;s possible that Rozen didn&#039;t originally intend to do it that way, but thought it might be a decent alternative after Enju and Laplace were tricking the dolls to try and prove that Enju was superior.

10.) Kirakishou could still use Hinaichigo&#039;s body, I don&#039;t see the problem there.

wait what</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now to get rid of all your &#8216;holes&#8217;.</p>
<p>1.) The Rosa Mystica are not all just parts of one thing, they&#8217;re all seperate. We also have no proof that Rozen himself wants them to fight, the only ones who talk about the game are Enju and crew. Why is he still alive? It&#8217;s an animoot/manga. People can live forever if they&#8217;re magic, it&#8217;s one of those things you just don&#8217;t question.</p>
<p>2.) As said several times in the series, Rozen lost Suigintou&#8217;s plans and thus didn&#8217;t finish her. He gave her a Roza Mystica eventually since he of course DID start making her, so why not?</p>
<p>3.) I think the &#8216;started working on her while in the N-field&#8217; is the best explanation.</p>
<p>4.) I&#8217;m personally assuming Enju fixed her, as they say only &#8216;father&#8217; can repair people, but Enju WAS his apprentice. Enju could very well have had the ability to make Rosa Mystica, and maybe he had Suigintou&#8217;s all along.</p>
<p>5.) That screencap is from episode 2 or 3 of the first season. The second time she says that is in the episode she comes back, where she obviously has amnesia.</p>
<p>6.) &#8230;That&#8217;s not in any way a plot-hole, it&#8217;s just something unexplained. There&#8217;s also no proof that Laplace is working with/for Rozen, just Enju.</p>
<p>7.) The Alice Game is always on, from what I understand. Laplace just said that since they all thought every doll was &#8216;awake&#8217;, so it was perfect timing to actually begin in earnest. As for Hina, she only loses her ability to gain power from Shinku after Souseiseki loses her rosa mystica, the first true &#8216;loss&#8217; in the game.</p>
<p>8.) Maybe Enju is a recent apprentice of Rozen, or, since the Rosa Mystica seems to be a sort of Philospher&#8217;s stone, they&#8217;re just usin&#8217; their magicz to keep alive. There is no reason to assume he can&#8217;t make Rosa Mystica.</p>
<p>9.) Since Laplace and Enju are the only ones constantly talking about the Alice Game, it&#8217;s possible that Rozen didn&#8217;t originally intend to do it that way, but thought it might be a decent alternative after Enju and Laplace were tricking the dolls to try and prove that Enju was superior.</p>
<p>10.) Kirakishou could still use Hinaichigo&#8217;s body, I don&#8217;t see the problem there.</p>
<p>wait what</p>
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		<title>By: Karura</title>
		<link>http://azureflame.dasaku.net/2007/01/04/rozen-maiden-deconstructed/comment-page-1/#comment-634</link>
		<dc:creator>Karura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azureflame.ikimashou.net/?p=656#comment-634</guid>
		<description>At least I don&#039;t have a blatant disregard of politeness.
Since I was not the only person to question the 67 years issue, perhaps the episode itself should have made it clearer. And since it was a line taken from an early manga chapter, it should have appeared earlier in the anime anyway.
Now perhaps you&#039;d care to explain why Suigintou was fixed in the first place, without once using the word &quot;fanboys&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least I don&#8217;t have a blatant disregard of politeness.<br />
Since I was not the only person to question the 67 years issue, perhaps the episode itself should have made it clearer. And since it was a line taken from an early manga chapter, it should have appeared earlier in the anime anyway.<br />
Now perhaps you&#8217;d care to explain why Suigintou was fixed in the first place, without once using the word &#8220;fanboys&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://azureflame.dasaku.net/2007/01/04/rozen-maiden-deconstructed/comment-page-1/#comment-633</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 02:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azureflame.ikimashou.net/?p=656#comment-633</guid>
		<description>The 67 years &quot;plot hole&quot; was hardly a hole at all.  Suigintou suffered from amnesia which relaxed itself throughout that episode of Traumend.  To her active memory, some time during WWII was the last time that she and Shinku fought, but during the episode, she came to realize that she had indeed lost to Shinku with Jun present, very recently.

Watch the episodes more closely before you start throwing holes around.  That was just a blatant disregard of information regarding that episode.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 67 years &#8220;plot hole&#8221; was hardly a hole at all.  Suigintou suffered from amnesia which relaxed itself throughout that episode of Traumend.  To her active memory, some time during WWII was the last time that she and Shinku fought, but during the episode, she came to realize that she had indeed lost to Shinku with Jun present, very recently.</p>
<p>Watch the episodes more closely before you start throwing holes around.  That was just a blatant disregard of information regarding that episode.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey</title>
		<link>http://azureflame.dasaku.net/2007/01/04/rozen-maiden-deconstructed/comment-page-1/#comment-618</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2007 06:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azureflame.ikimashou.net/?p=656#comment-618</guid>
		<description>My take on &quot;another way&quot;...

I thought that seeking the other way was the whole point of Shinku&#039;s conduct in the game: she does not wish to play the game as it is &quot;supposed&quot; to be played, by taking Rosa Mystica from her sisters.

From the OVA, it certainly seems as though Shinku is Rozen&#039;s favorite. As Arvanna said, it could be that Laplace is the one who sets up the game... perhaps so much that he was the one who gave Rozen the Rosa Mystica to begin with.

It is possible that Rozen does not want to see his life&#039;s work--his daughters--destroyed by playing the game and granted/encouraged/gambled on Shinku to seek another way. This may be why Shinku would be his favorite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My take on &#8220;another way&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>I thought that seeking the other way was the whole point of Shinku&#8217;s conduct in the game: she does not wish to play the game as it is &#8220;supposed&#8221; to be played, by taking Rosa Mystica from her sisters.</p>
<p>From the OVA, it certainly seems as though Shinku is Rozen&#8217;s favorite. As Arvanna said, it could be that Laplace is the one who sets up the game&#8230; perhaps so much that he was the one who gave Rozen the Rosa Mystica to begin with.</p>
<p>It is possible that Rozen does not want to see his life&#8217;s work&#8211;his daughters&#8211;destroyed by playing the game and granted/encouraged/gambled on Shinku to seek another way. This may be why Shinku would be his favorite.</p>
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		<title>By: Arvanna</title>
		<link>http://azureflame.dasaku.net/2007/01/04/rozen-maiden-deconstructed/comment-page-1/#comment-620</link>
		<dc:creator>Arvanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jan 2007 07:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azureflame.ikimashou.net/?p=656#comment-620</guid>
		<description>Something else consider at the end of the 1st season Shinku did not take Sougintou&#039;s mystica same as with Hina Ichigo and that she was restored prior to that era&#039;s game truly starting when Sougintou defeated the 4th doll and took the first mystica to be taken in the game from it&#039;s owner. 

Personally I have enjoyed the entire season and instead of plot holes see interesting questions mostly regarding what is Laplace&#039;s true role in the game? It wouldn&#039;t surprise me if it turns out the Alice game was his invention hence why Rozen told Shinku there was another less muderous way to become Alice.

Last note regarding why Rozen would appear to Sougintou in the OVA? He may have been unaware she  was alive and had managed to pull herself together with that incrediable will of her&#039;s untill she came into contact with the other Rozen Maiden. At that point he decided that she had demonstrated she was worthy as he told her in the 2nd season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something else consider at the end of the 1st season Shinku did not take Sougintou&#8217;s mystica same as with Hina Ichigo and that she was restored prior to that era&#8217;s game truly starting when Sougintou defeated the 4th doll and took the first mystica to be taken in the game from it&#8217;s owner. </p>
<p>Personally I have enjoyed the entire season and instead of plot holes see interesting questions mostly regarding what is Laplace&#8217;s true role in the game? It wouldn&#8217;t surprise me if it turns out the Alice game was his invention hence why Rozen told Shinku there was another less muderous way to become Alice.</p>
<p>Last note regarding why Rozen would appear to Sougintou in the OVA? He may have been unaware she  was alive and had managed to pull herself together with that incrediable will of her&#8217;s untill she came into contact with the other Rozen Maiden. At that point he decided that she had demonstrated she was worthy as he told her in the 2nd season.</p>
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		<title>By: Karura</title>
		<link>http://azureflame.dasaku.net/2007/01/04/rozen-maiden-deconstructed/comment-page-1/#comment-630</link>
		<dc:creator>Karura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jan 2007 16:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azureflame.ikimashou.net/?p=656#comment-630</guid>
		<description>elric, that first point does make sense, I just wished that had been clarified in the series...but Bara isn&#039;t in the manga, so why does Kiraki only exist in the N-field there?

kacpy, it was just to point out plot holes in anime and manga- even if you consider them separately there are some problems, imo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>elric, that first point does make sense, I just wished that had been clarified in the series&#8230;but Bara isn&#8217;t in the manga, so why does Kiraki only exist in the N-field there?</p>
<p>kacpy, it was just to point out plot holes in anime and manga- even if you consider them separately there are some problems, imo.</p>
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		<title>By: elric</title>
		<link>http://azureflame.dasaku.net/2007/01/04/rozen-maiden-deconstructed/comment-page-1/#comment-619</link>
		<dc:creator>elric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 18:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azureflame.ikimashou.net/?p=656#comment-619</guid>
		<description>well...The issue of the last meet of shinku and suigintou were 67 years ago is because suigintou lost her memory after burn in the first season and in traumend we can see she is remembering.and suigin tou problem is because some doll needs to moving on   the game.kira kishou was created without a body because the presence of bara suishou in the game is crucial so was a good idea put a false doll for hide the real one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well&#8230;The issue of the last meet of shinku and suigintou were 67 years ago is because suigintou lost her memory after burn in the first season and in traumend we can see she is remembering.and suigin tou problem is because some doll needs to moving on   the game.kira kishou was created without a body because the presence of bara suishou in the game is crucial so was a good idea put a false doll for hide the real one.</p>
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